T O P

First time lifting more than bodyweight (175cm 66kg lifting 67.5kg 5th set) feels like next time I will miss a rep when increasing weight. Coach at gym told me not to go that deep. Really? What do you guys see? What can I improve? Cheers

First time lifting more than bodyweight (175cm 66kg lifting 67.5kg 5th set) feels like next time I will miss a rep when increasing weight. Coach at gym told me not to go that deep. Really? What do you guys see? What can I improve? Cheers

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Specialist-Cycle-758

I think those are nice high bar squats and the debth is onpoint. I quess the ”coach” at your gym is only training elder people and is like ”don’t go that deep it’ll wreck your knees”..lol


youngstar1

Totally agree. Depth looks completely fine


Ambitious-Pin-3445

LOTS of elder people there, right! 😂 but to be fair: she mentioned that knees over toes isn't a problem.


Specialist-Cycle-758

Ok, then I’ll be fair to her as well: She is not wrong saying that you don’t NEED to go that low (unpopular opinion). The fact is that half-squats are pretty therapeutic and good for joints / recovery when done in 12-15 rep schemes. Many competing lifters do half squats for that reason. It is possible to build muscle by doing half squats too. However, the debth you are hitting now in this video is perfect in means of competition rules.


Ambitious-Pin-3445

Thank you!


Khanmoeller

Thats bull. Lots of studies of sheer forces throughout different ranges of motion have been made, and all show highest sheer forces on the patella and patella ligament at above 90 degrees (and acctually, for the ligament, also fairly high below 90 degrees). Cutting range of motion of the joints is the least you want to do, both in terms of sheer forces but also in terms of vascularization of the joint through all distal ends. As a second, standard protocal for tendon rehab is done through full range of motion in slow excentric work 3 times a day for 12-15 reps. Literally the exactly opposite of cutting range of motion in half. You want to expose the ligaments to stretch as often as possible, and through a full range of motion. You want to give the best conditions to revasculize areas of injury. How about for sports? BULLSHIT. Lots of studies have been conducted testing jump height and velocity. ALL studies show either similar or inferior results with partial reps compared to full reps. So nothing to back up that partials are better for expose reps, its all old news from 80-90s coaches who dont follow with the times.


Specialist-Cycle-758

Thank you for the reply, you could be right and ”old school” habits might just sit tight. :) However, I have to correct my comment by specifying that by half squats I meant 90 degrees knee angle (Parallel is about 70 degrees and ”ass to grass” 50 degrees). Moreover, there are studies that show that differences between used range of motion have only marginal difference, and going below parallell might not be worth the risk. Now, I’m not suggesting that everyone should do half reps instead of full rom, just stating that it is OK also not to hit debth. Here is a link to one study: https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/08/suppversity-emg-series-gluteaus-maximus.html?m=1


Khanmoeller

Thank you for the link, ill read it later I definitly agree with you, its all about the context :).


gainzdr

Do you have anything to support your claim that half squats are therapeutic for your joints or recovery? Pretty much everything I’ve been exposed to supports the opposite. Tempo squats can be really good for soft tissues and recovery.


Andy0852

In sports specific instances shorter ranges of motion are used as the norm, e.g. basketballers tend to focus on short ranges of motion with more explosive movement. General population would generally benefit most from squatting as deep as mobility allows while focusing on making improvements in mobility. I agree with others, depth is good and form is good. On a few reps you drifted forward slightly but nothing major


gainzdr

Sure but what does that have to do with being therapeutic to joints? As far as I’m concerned that’s a joint angle and movement velocity specificity thing


Andy0852

It doesn’t, was giving an example of examples of when it would be appropriate to do less than full ROM. Sorry for confusing things, I agree with you 😀


gainzdr

Fair enough. I don’t have any gripes with what you said either


Janji44

Look up kneesovertoes guy on YouTube or Instagram :)


gainzdr

What am I supposed to be gathering from him?


Specialist-Cycle-758

To be more specific; low intensity squats to 90 degree knee angle in high reps (12-15) are good for joints and recovery. In fact, everyone should do this before any work sets and once you are advanced, also between actual workouts. Eastern lifters always start by doing 30 reps with only bar (20kg). Full squat is approximately 50-40 degree knee angle, so ”half squat” is 90 degree knee angle. Maybe there was a misconseption? Anything more than 90 degree knee angle and it is not a squat anymore. :)


gainzdr

A full squat is ~85 degree as far as I’m concerned. Anything deeper than that is a deep squat. Less than that (greater knee angle) is a partial squat. Lower intensity could be useful for a deload, yes. Changing the rep scheme to have a lower absolute load could also be useful in certain contexts. The rest of this is just silly


Specialist-Cycle-758

Potato patato. If you think rest is silly, try squatting 300+ kg more than once a week. I’m not talking about deloading, I’m talking about boosting recovery between workouts and warming up before workout. Doing this is better than squatting only once a week, and when you get to certain level its not possible to squat ”heavy” 2-3 times a week (I’m not there yet). 12-15 reps at minimum is needed to warm up tendons and ligaments and everyone would benefit from doing proper warmups before workout. Everyone would also benefit from stretching between workouts and one should never stretch cold muscles/tendons. I think you can agree with that? :) Anyway, this went little sideways which I understand as this is a sensitive topic (How deep one should squat) and I wasn’t really specific when referring to ”half squats”. Also: Knee angle = angle between shinbone and thighbone -> in parallel to floor the angle is ~70 degrees and gets smaller when you get lower. In high bar squats the knee angle in ”full squat” tends to be lower than in low bar squats, so theres that too.


gainzdr

What’s your best squat? Well sure squatting than more than once a week is generally advisable. But what does having a big squat have to with using partials? You might moderate intensity, use different rep ranges or close variations on some of the other squat days. But 12-15 “high” squats is just randomness., 5x5 with the empty bar. Problem solved. No reason you can’t go full ROM. Stretching is probably unnecessary for most people. Yeah I don’t tend to describe squat depths in terms of knee angle alone because it doesn’t make sense to most people and people tend to interpret it differently. It’s simpler to just say something like “apex of the hip crease below the top surface of the knee”:


Specialist-Cycle-758

Thank you for the replies, I’m always ready to a nice change of thoughts in good spirit. :) My best squat is 200kg. Current 5x5 workset is 5x5 150kg. I’m rolling my muscles, stretching and warming up by squatting with bw / bar+bw before every workout (takes about 30min) and after that I’m squatting 5’s and adding weight plate-by-plate until I reach my workout weights. I’m not doing partials nor do I need to do ”recovery workouts” yet (I’m doing variations instead like you suggested, full rom but with band to add resistance after parallel etc.). My point is that the coach was not wrong, it is OK to not go parallel either and tried to give a credit to that though by referring to it as a common thing also among big lifters. Why do some big lifters squat above parallel to recover? I quess it has to do with weight they use for these ”light squats”, they just want to get the blood flowing without putting themselves at unneccesary risk (high reps with high weight is risky because it is easy to lose focus). What I disagree heavily is that most people, and especially beginners, DO need stretching and to work with their mobility. Thats why most coaches you see at gym tell people they don’t need to squat ”that low”. In means of muscle activation and getting the benefits from a workout they are totally right saying so. Many people have shortened hamstrings due to sitting and propably tight ankles too, these people shouldn’t stop squatting just because they can’t go safely below parallel to have the squat accepted by Reddit experts. They need to keep squatting, keep adding weight and work with their mobility. Same applies for elder and severely obese people who often are clients of the ”gym coaches”. However, I think they get so fixated to what is taught to them about preventing their clients injuring themselves that they don’t realize its totally fine for young and athletic to squat below parallel. In long term doing full rom squats is no doubt healthier option and a way to go, but in short term it is a potential risk for some people. Same way supporters of full rom squatting don’t seem to account individual differences and potential health issues a person has at all when giving advices (”You need to go deeper, bro!). Bottom line, anyone who wants to squat their potential and stay healthy should absolutely do stretching and practise ”active recovery”. Everyone would also propably benefit from proper warmup. At least I couldn’t go through my current training protocol without these routines, my muscles are just too sore to squat anything without doing this warmup routine.


shagwood

Agreed, depth is spot on here.


Sasquatchslayer55

I agree, depth is good. I would switch shoes though. Don’t go out & spend a bunch of money on power lifting shoes. Just find something that has a solid sole & something close to the ground if you can find that nice overlap. The soft sole in those is causing you to go up on your toes, which may be giving you that insecure feeling. I can’t tell from the profile, but there’s a possibility you’re going a little knobby knees too. A lot of lifters just use something like some Chuck’s, I wouldn’t use them for cardio, or hiit training because they’re kinda heavy & not good for those workouts. I bought the Vibram Furoshiki’s a few months ago & I absolutely love them, I have a super wide foot though & prefer the barefoot adjacent lifestyle to begin with. You may also try setting the bar just a few inches lower on your back as well, really helps keep that weight over your hips.


Ambitious-Pin-3445

Yeah, the shoes are shit. Starting to feel this now. Thanks!


AutomaticDot

Adidas sells some decent priced for around 70€


Andy0852

Yeah powerlifts are decent, slightly less heel than a traditional pair of lifters, enough to get the benefit without needing to wear different shoes for squats then changing for the rest of the session


BPCalvinist

I’ll echo the comment about ditching the marshmallow shoes. If you don’t want to get nice squat shoes, vans/converse work well. Or if you’re like me, just do it barefoot - that’s always the cheapest option.


ThrowItAwayNow5x5

Good depth.. Keep going. One small piece of advice, don't back so far out of the cage. You're giving yourself about 3" to save your spine from getting crushed if you fail. Why do that when you can give yourself 12" of safety bar?


Ambitious-Pin-3445

Ah, that's just because I need the adrenalin... 😉 Thanks, will do


godjira1

looks good to me


ThrowawayTostado

Looking real strong brother!


No_brain_no_life

To add to what everyone else is saying. Good form, good speed. It all depends on your goals, if you want to be a powerlifter then squatting to minimum legal depth is fine. If you just want to build strength then working within a larger range of motion will mean you are stronger in a larger range of motion. Either way best of luck and keep it up!


Ambitious-Pin-3445

Cheers


Specialist-Cycle-758

Going below parallel is not more effective, its actually the opposite. Check this study for example: https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/08/suppversity-emg-series-gluteaus-maximus.html?m=1


No_brain_no_life

I was talking about being stronger in that range of motion not overall. Furthermore even the study you linked says it isn't worth it "due to increased risk of injury" not because it doesn't give better strength gains(from admittedly a quick skim read). I'm not saying it's better or worse, I'm saying that if you practice it you will be stronger in that larger range of motion which I don't think is particularly controversial


Specialist-Cycle-758

You are right, practising full rom makes you stronger in full rom (or specifically makes the muscle stronger from its ends where it is weakest). But squatting bigger weight to parallel does give better strength gains than going full rom with lighter weight (which is needed to go lower). From the same study; ”doing the "full squat" down to 40° with an appropriately lighter weight takes away -18% of the stimulus.” Anyway, one should do both; full rom squats to prevent future injuries and squat to parallel with bigger weight to maximize gainz.


RobinsonDickinson

Great form man, make sure to take a DEEP breath and hold it throughout your entire rep. Depth is also great, your coach is too dramatic. Also, lose the shoes. Get some good squat shoes. I love these https://www.adidas.com/us/powerlift-4-shoes/FV6599.html


learnworkbuyrepeat

Your depth is fine. It’s a little deeper than competition depth, but that’s for powerlifters (almost all of whom low bar squat). You’re doing high bar, for which parallel is the absolute highest one should squat, while many like to do ATG. You’re in the middle. You’re fine. However, you are tilting forward a bit in the later reps. High bar squats put much more of an onus on you to maintain your back angle. Stay in your hips.


itsaboutangles

I'm in favor of bare feet


passatatomata

Remove shoes


papegaai

Look like nice reps to me. Depth looks fine and comfortable for you.


Reiisan

I think your form looks great, keep it up and keep pushing. Sure you maybe fail a rep when you go up in weight but keep pushing and you will be doing 65 for warm ups! But yeah lose the shoes - I just kick my trainers off to squat or DL, then put them back on for moving around.


Redditgoodaccount

Hey you’re doing good. The squat is dangerous especially in the phase you are now so next time if at the first set AFTER A PROPER SQUAT WARMUP will feel too heavy to maintain form just lower it and do 5 sets. Strength will come in time the trick is to avoid injuries and be consistent! Do not feel afraid to lower the weight we’ll all been there the first months are a journey arguably the most difficult


StormAdministrative2

Like you haven't heard it enough: your form looks perfect. Ditch the marshmallows your sticking your feet into.


bluesheepUK

I’m no kind of expert, so treat this as nothing more than another man’s experience. I’ve been squatting for a while, and had reasonable feedback on my form. I’d read a few threads here that talked about watching out for knees travelling forward of toes. I was happy with my lifting so didn’t worry too much about it. I’ve had a little knee pain recently and decided to try out controlling my knee movement a bit more. It took a lot of conscious effort, but controlling my knees forced a more obvious hip hinge and ‘sit’ into my squat. When I did this I felt like a I had more capacity than I did with my old form. Yours look good, and if it works for you there is no reason to change, just something to think about.


Specialist-Cycle-758

Thats because by ”sitting back” you activate more gluteus maximus, which is the strongest muscle of human body ;)


bluesheepUK

Hoping I can jump on your comment. Since changing my technique I’ve developed a little bit of lower back pain. Never had this before so I’m sure it’s something to do with the change. Anything you would suggest I look out for?


Specialist-Cycle-758

Impossible to know why you experience that, but I can share my own experience; lots of hip movements and office job had led to a tight harmstrings, which has caused lower back ”pain” / lower back discomfort for me. Stretching the harmstrings and glutes has helped.


danbro0o

That trainer is crazy. Your form looks great good work. You’ve got more strength in your legs than you think, usually bracing is the limiting factor for squatting. Core work and belt will help you to keep progressing.


Specialist-Cycle-758

100% true. In most cases core strength becomes the limiting factor to squat or deadlift more.


Initial_Birthday5614

Looks spot on to me bro


glib-eleven

Looks deep enough and not too deep.


Jtop1

I think your form looks excellent. Especially for lifting in running shoes by the look of it. No butt wink. Controlling the weight really well. You don’t come up on your toes. Depth is wonderful. I’m a fan.


lguy421

I dread hearing that in the gym. I watched a dude today doing 225lb and hips are 3” above breaking parallel. I try to break parallel each time. I know I’m gonna hear it soon. Oh well


SaladBarMonitor

When you are going up you’re going slightly forward especially on reps three and four. You have to make The barbell go straight down and straight up and have it centered over the middle of your foot. Impressive depth. I’m still slightly above parallel so I’m a little bit jealous of your ankle mobility. Incidentally, I’m doing exactly the same weight as you. I suppose I should continue at this weight until I get the depth correct.


diddly69

Depth looks spot on. Eat more food.


Ambitious-Pin-3445

You are boosting my motivation through the roof people! Thanks for your differentiated feedbacks so far!


CL300driver

Looks great! What’s with the mask still??


Ambitious-Pin-3445

Thanks! Masks are still mandatory in Switzerland when indoors. But it's about to change soon.